Thursday, December 15, 2011

Numbers

As the holidays arrive and I look at our four stockings hung by the chimney with care, and I clean closets and wonder whether to save the baby and toddler clothes, and I investigate new career paths that pay less and/or require moves to bigger cities with smaller homes, my mind is constantly returning to the question of whether we're going to have more kids. But I don't know. And that bothers me.

There's a lot I don't know that doesn't bother me at all- the fundamentals of organic chemistry (despite 8 college hours in the subject), the appeal of Sara Palin, the appeal of Kim Kardashian, and how to cook a chicken breast without making it dry (well that one bothers me a little). But it seems that I should know if I'd like another baby and if I want my family to contain four or five human members.

When JP and I got married we thought we'd have 3-4 kids. I was one of 3 and it seemed like the perfect number to my 12-year-old brain- not as perfect or boring as the 2 kids/2 parents combo and not as crazy as the 4-5 kid families. JP is an only child and definitely wanted 3+ kids of our own. And then we had Landon. And while we loved him, we couldn't imagine voluntarily signing up for the first 12 months of baby care-taking again. Two years and a few months later, we accidentally got pregnant with Claire. Six weeks into Claire's infancy, I was absolutely certain we'd have more babies. I think I could have found out I was pregnant right then and been thrilled with it. But then Claire got bigger. She stayed just as awesome but we saw the way she and Landon interacted, and the way our family worked as a unit of four, and it was just so good and so easy. JP got a job and it was a bit rocky, but we figured that out and it's good again. While more time in the day would always be welcome, I honestly believe we get to spend enough time with our children and that they think feel the same. We're involved in their daycare classes, with their teachers and friends and parents, and we spend a lot of time together at home. And while I've learned that adding a child doesn't cut your time with your existing child(ren) in half, I do wonder how we could give enough to three kids and still give enough to each other (I'm a firm believer in the priority of the marriage before the kids- JP and I were a partnership before we had kids and we do our best by them in maintaining that happy, supportive, loving relationship as our family's backbone). And then there's finances (daycare is about $60,000/kid over the 5 years), logistics, and the increasing realization that in about another year we'll be done with diapers, cribs, strollers, and all other baby accoutrements. And that sounds pretty awesome.

But- if I'm done, shouldn't I know that? It's so big- creating a whole new little person to love and care for, to find adorable and brilliant and hilarious and everything we think about Claire and Landon- how can I not know if I want to do that again or not? To have a family of four v. a family of five? The idea of not having Clairebear is devastating, and I know I'd feel that way about baby #3 should I get a chance to meet him/her. Ambivalence just seems out of place and yet that is exactly what I feel.

If I were to bet (and I wouldn't because I hate gambling and even the fact that we have money in the stock market drives me crazy), I'd say we're done. It makes sense. We're happy. The world is generally built for groups of four. It's easier to travel, something we desperately want to do more of, and we can start taking big trips sooner if we exit the baby years at Claire. As a kid I thought the four person families were too perfect. As an adult I see that a table for four (and hotel room for four, and car for four...) is a wonderful thing. The thought of being done with pregnancy and the need for new clothes and making my body gain/lose 40+ pounds in a year, that sounds pretty good too. I love both of my siblings and can't imagine life or my childhood without them- I never once wished for a smaller family. But I also don't think that had it been just two of us, that I would have felt that something was missing. JP claims that if he were to bet (and he actually would because financial risk is something he finds fun) he thinks we're having more, but he's okay if we don't.

I don't know what we'll do. As I cleaned out the kids' closets I made two sets of bins. One "memory bin" for each child with the special clothes- the ones that even if we were to have a third and fourth I wouldn't reuse. The baptismal dress, the home from the hospital onesie... those are preserved forever. Then I made another bin of the clothes for each sex, at each age, that are nice, unstained, and cute enough that I'd look forward to using again, but should we not have more children, I'd give the whole bin away without a second thought. We've done the same with baby toys and gear- given away most, kept a select few favorites. I look at the pictures of friends with their brand new babies in the hospital and I can't imagine not having that experience again- of being in the hospital, marveling at what you created, and spending those weeks at home, snuggling on the couch with your sleepy, stretchy little wombat. But then I visited a friend today and held her newborn baby girl, and while I loved being able to chat with a tiny baby sleeping on my chest, I didn't feel a single pang of jealousy or desire as I handed her back over to mama.

Part of me thinks we'll wait a while, see where are careers go over the next few years, and then, if we do want to expand our family, try to have two more close together again. We're 28 and 30, we have time. Most of me thinks we're done. All of me wishes I knew what I wanted, and I wonder why I don't.

23 comments:

  1. Ahhh - we were in the same boat as you. We had our first at 25 and 27 and our second at 27 and 29. We felt someone missing and are now having our third (and last) at 34 and 36. Yes, there will be an age difference, but we just felt someone was missing.

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  2. I think the fact that you're so uncertain means that if you don't have a third, you'll regret it later, but like you said, you still have time.

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  3. How to make moist chicken (and an amazing recipe for salad made using it):

    http://justbento.com/handbook/recipe-collection-mains/the-easiest-always-moist-poached-chicken

    For the rest? Well, you will know.

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  4. It's totally good that you are giving this a lot of thought- I mean we are talking the creation of a whole new person (or persons!). Unless it happens by surprise, I think it's good to give the idea a lot of thought :) I'm sure as Claire gets older something will just feel right one way or the other. If not, heck, life is messy and most of the time we just tackle whatever is thrown at us and it works out just fine. It's nice to have kids so young and have the resource of time on your side!

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  5. Though you feel ambivalent, you sound done. I knew that I wasn't done. And I knew when I was. I am thankful that I/we could actually decide that, and go with it. I'm not sure how I would've handled having to be done, but not feeling done at all. To me (and I think you can trust the amount of experience I carry within) you sound content. And content is a very, very good thing. I think it will lead to "done", but you're right. You can put away the decision making for now .... into one of the bins, and then see if it pops open in another year or so. My guess is that it won't. You have a good number and a good routine that just keeps improving. Travel with 4 is amazingly easier than travel with 5. And if traveling in an important goal, contentment is a great sign .... again. Go with contentment ..... for now. And see where it leads you. Probably to a deeper sense of contentment. A wonderful blessing. :)

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  6. Oh, my. It is scary how this post is exactly everything I have thought, said, etc. I could have written it word-for-word (well, except the chicken. Crockpot is the only way, and it comes out moist everytime) EXCEPT that we only have 1. And I can't imagine her being an only child. Everything else, though? Exactly. The ambivalence. The contentedness. Ah! And I'm 35, so I don't have as much time to figure it out. But it is driving me absolutely insane. Part of me wants to just have another and get it over with so I don't have to think about it anymore; I know that I'll love a future baby regardless... I just remember the intensity of how badly I wanted my daughter, and not feeling that same intense desire seems unfair to any future children somehow... And I almost always know exactly what I want, so this ambivalence is driving me absolutely crazy. Ah! I just want to come to Texas and chat with you about this over tea or drinks (I'm not really a coffee drinker) until we both figure it out. (I won't, though, no worries). :)

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  7. I understand how you feel. I had my first when I was very young, and then got my life in order and 8 years later had my second and two years after that my third. I have been giving away all the baby stuff as my third grows, but I still wonder if we should have another. But then I think of the money, the time off work (I am a lawyer also, though not BigLaw), all of those concerns and know that realistically we are done. I also worry that if I had another, I will still miss having a baby once that one grew and I can't just keep having kids! So we are done.

    But it is not helpful that my husband says he would welcome a fourth, though he is happy with our three and ok with being done.

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  8. I have just one, and I'm sorry for her that she doesn't have playmates and a future sibling to share experiences with, but one is the right decision for us. Doesn't mean it's an easy decision and that I don't have regrets. There is little that's logical about the "decision" to have children, right?

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  9. This is just how I felt before having our third and now that we have three we know FOR SURE that we are DONE. I think what finally helped me make the decision was that I realized we were young (about the same age as you two are now) and time flies. Another few years of newborn/babyhood/toddlerhood/daycare/part-time work schedule for me? Big Deal. It would be over before we knew it. He's 18 months now and soooooo worth it. It brings me to tears to think about how we almost decided against a third.

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  10. The secret of moist chicken breasts is not to overcook them. I put boneless skinless breasts in the oven at 325 for 50 minutes and they are perfect every time.

    I feel pretty done at two. I've been quite ambivalent, but I just don't want to have another pregnancy even though I might want another person in our family. My husband would have babies upon babies upon babies if childcare weren't so expensive. This is my problem with law school. I didn't want children when I started and so taking on nearly 100,000 in debt was fine because I would be working working working and climbing the ladder to director level in a minute. Now I work just enough to pay for child care and loans and that's it, but I'm home at 2:45 every day. I'm ready to make a permanent decision, but huz is freaked out. He asks are we sure we're completely done in every possible life scenario? Who knows!

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  11. I have had the exact, exact same thoughts. (Except we never wanted three until after X was born.)

    I second poaching the chicken.

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  12. Hey girl-

    I thought I was done after my twins. I also thought, there's no way in hell that I'll get pregnant without IVF. I didn't want another pregnancy.

    But... but... but...

    I was ambivalent about a third. I always imagined "chubby" while preggo with the girls. And so we just went with the flow, no need for condoms or birth control, and sort of left it to the universe. I was on the fence. My husband was definitely pro-Chubby.

    Since I couldn't decide, I think the universe decided for me. Now I'm in my 2nd trimester with the Chubby. I'm over the moon.

    But it feels like everything has fallen into place. We're back in LA. He really loves his psycho job that affords an amazing life with even 3 kids in LA. And I feel like this is a miracle baby who was waiting to be born.

    I say meditate on it and follow your intuition and your gut. Good luck!!

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  13. CZ here and wow, we are pretty in sync here, except hubs and I are both one of 3, so that number feels like with inertia, will happen. but i can't afford it right now! so, given that we still have five years before i have to decide, we're waiting. the travel thing is a very good point. not to mention that college for these guys will be $100K a year.

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  14. I have 3. My husband and I both work full time. I started out thinking i wanted 4. When I had only two, I knew I wasn't done. After I had #3, I knew I was done. I have no yearning for another baby and my youngest is now 7. With work and family we are stretched to the very limit because we like to be involved -- school, church, coaching, scouts-- I truly believe trying to do all this for 4 would have broken us. Doing it for 2 would have been much more manageable, but I would have had regrets. The cost aspect is not insignificant and does not stop with child are. A third child = a third set of piano fees, a third set of gifts at Christmas, a third plane ticket, a third ski rental, a third three day ticket at Disney. Traveling becomes very expensive when you multiply everything by 5. Just something to consider as you mull this over. But, as you say, you have time.

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  15. We just had our third a month ago. I have to say that transitioning from 2 to 3 is actually much harder than from 1 to 2 -- as my husband puts it, going from man to man defense to zone. The logistics of three is so difficult, and I really do feel as if I am not able to give enough to each as an individual. The upside of course is meeting a third, completely unique person. It really takes the family away from the binary to more of a prism.

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  16. I have a similar annoyingly ambivlent feeling when it comes to my family and kids. My husband just started a new career last year and I am the main financial support. We have good jobs and are young. I get crazy about whether or not we want to have kids, we don't have any now. See, I have some medical issues that keep me from having children naturally most likely so the issue of accidental 'it may just happen' just isn't there for us. We could try medical assistance, adoption or just hope for a miracle but the idea that I don't KNOW what I want to do drives me absolutely nuts. Going through another painful ordeal like before seems awful but thinking of life without little ones makes me feel lacking. Its an odd dance I do between I think being able to spoil the kids in our lives that others have would be ideal because we can drop them off after we fill them full of sugar and buy them the things their parents won't and I feel like life without holding my own child in my arms would just be hard to do. We are 25 and 26 so we have lots of time to think about it but we've been married almost 4 years now and thats kind of when you start to make those sort of decisions together. Also my current medical condition and the fact that any sort of pregnancy would be very very difficult to acheive means we have less time than other couples would have at our age. Its an odd feeling, I really think I should be leaning one direction or the other. Good luck and let me know if you find a way to figure out what you really want.

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  17. Not to be cynical or negative, but to be honest, they grow up and are too old to be on Christmas cards. Their SAT scores are the lowest in the class. You are always at the dentist because they need fillings. They break up with girl or boy friends. You get a little crazy with worry. I am not sure having one was even a good idea and she is relativity trouble free.

    After age 15 or so, you have limited control and influence. Be warned.

    Beth C.

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  18. @Beth C. - I hope and pray that your daughter never sees your comment. Are you serious? Fillings and low SAT scores? You disgust me.

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  19. I am beginning to believe that after a woman has had a child/children, they will always at least "wonder" what if. At 35 i had a TIA and was told not to have anymore children. With a 5 and almost 2 yr old, we had decided we were done before the TIA but something about being told not to really had me thinking. I also don't like not knowing. I'm a planner, I make lists. We had a very hard year with our first and having a second was scary to me. And now, we will be diaper free in a matter of months (HUGE) and the youngest will start preschool next Aug. Standing in line to take pictures with Santa my husband and I were talking about how in 3 short years our lives will be totally different. We will have 2 kids in school (kinder and 3rd..all day)and that really changes things. I could go back to work...we can travel more, i could go back to school...its a change for the family but a big change for me after being home since my oldest was born. I am 36 and soon we have to make a permanent decision (the v word for the hubby) because I dont want a surprise at 40 yrs old. With the TIA, previous gestational diabetes and having a 9 lb baby I feel done and it could be very dangerous: I feel done but i don't think i'll stop wondering.

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  20. Just a thought for you to consider: I loved having kids but hated being pregnant. I also love 2-3 yr olds (and up) alot more than I loved babies. When I thought of having more kids, I always thought of that first year as something I needed to survive. In the end, we chose to adopt through foster care. I know that is a REALLY touchy subject for you, but there are thousands of kids who have been removed from their homes for really great reasons (not like yours,) and most aren't babies and they need families. Like I said - just something to think about.

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  21. BethC,

    "Not to be cynical or negative, but" is the lead in to disaster - general rule of thumb is if you have to qualify what you're saying with a lead in like that just stop. What possible purpose was the comment "they grow up and are too old to be on Christmas cards" other than to be cynical and negative? I'd really like to know.

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  22. Beth C. here. I do not want to clutter up LL's guest book/blog with any nastiness or argumentative comments. However, I do feel that a reality check is practical. For the record, I would have been delighted to have more children but health issues precluded same. As the years go by, the parenting experience becomes much more stressful, perhaps because of everything that cannot be controlled. It can be most overwhelming. Sorry for harshing your vibe about the wonders of motherhood. As for low SAT scores, get back to me when your child is in senior year: the college application process is nothing like it was and you may be in for an unpleasant surprise or two. There is just so much that we cannot predict...indeed, not all siblings even grow up to like one another... Enough. I hope everyone is happy with their number of children.

    Beth C.

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  23. Beth C.,

    Look, I get that you're trying for a reality check, I guess I feel some of your examples are more precisely examples of things that I wouldn't even *think* I could control.

    Whether or not siblings like each other? What their SAT scores are? How difficult teenagers are to raise? How hard it will be financially?

    That's life. Kids are expensive and they don't always behave. They don't always realize their full potential on every standardized test.

    My goal as a parent is to raise kids with good values and good life skills, as safely as I can without hovering. I know I can't even control that much, but that's what is important.

    Low SAT scores? Guess you're going to either take it again or start at a community or state school. (Which is more affordable and easily transferable to a 4 year or more prestigious school once grades are good - if that is even necessary)

    Don't like your siblings? Tolerate them for now and take some time and space for yourself, you'll either grow up and out of it or just never be that close. Oh well.

    Made a bad decision and end up with unpleasant consequences? Well I guess you won't do that again - will you? If you do, you have no one to blame but yourself.

    I'm really curious where the "sorry for harshing the vibe about the wonders of motherhood" is even directed? (It seems like you're trying to justify the bitterness by implying that this is all nonsensical gushing about wonders of motherhood? I'm trying not to misread you here, but your comments are not clearly directed at anything specific.)

    And you still didn't answer what the point of the Xmas card comment was? Even if all of your other points were "reality checks" I'm not getting the point of that one (except bitterness).

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