tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post7243099884906192083..comments2024-03-27T12:22:20.528-05:00Comments on Lag Liv: Now You've Gone and Done ItLLhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04431706155081017734noreply@blogger.comBlogger51125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-43844450899306983792012-07-31T12:43:54.574-05:002012-07-31T12:43:54.574-05:00You know, I generally agree with 90% of what you s...You know, I generally agree with 90% of what you said. <br /><br />Separately, though, I think if you are the CEO of an internet company and you decide to make a public comment about your plans for maternity leave, you kind of have to expect "the internet" to have an opinion about it and I think that is fair. Everything in life is a trade-off. Working as a mom means you give up some things and gain some things. Working in the public arena means you give up privacy. I'm sure she either felt as the leader of her company or was pressured by the board to speak publicly about her plans to keep investor fear about what would happen in that time at bay. That is a cost of the job she has taken. As a result of making her choice very public, there is a public opinion. Anonymous and semi-anonymous people get to be jerks and express their assinine opinions. It's silly for us all to be so shocked (SHOCKED!) about it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-66253469064305081722012-07-23T12:25:13.451-05:002012-07-23T12:25:13.451-05:00That particular "open letter" is so smug...That particular "open letter" is so smug and inappropriately condescending. But in general, I think it's useful to talk about these issues and in particular, I loved Anne-Marie Slaughter's article (despite the "having it all" headline and her focus on working women rather than working parents). If the debate is about "should women work or be mommies," I agree it's a waste of time. But if it's "how can we have meaningful careers and family lives at the same time," I think there's a lot left to be said about that. <br /><br />On a separate note, I'm very interested to see what Marissa Mayer will do as the CEO of Yahoo! It's been a sinking ship for so long, but it still seems like there's a lot of potential there. And coming from Google, I bet she'll be willing to shake up their business model.CMhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01559451322234777335noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-55083966587587462442012-07-23T11:17:36.134-05:002012-07-23T11:17:36.134-05:00Love the post. My thoughts go to my former sister...Love the post. My thoughts go to my former sister-in-law. She worked two jobs cleaning houses and bussing tables at a restaurant. Aren't we just special with our problems? SIL had to go back to work a WEEK after having her child. And that week about killed them financially. I would bet there are millions of women who cannot take any maternity leave and yet our outcries are for those who can not only take leave (or not) but could return to work on a flexible or part-time schedule at their whim? Come on... We have it good by comparison. The only part of this whole story I take exception to is her hubris that it will all go smoothly and she can race back to work. Sure, make a plan, put career in front but EXPECT THE UNEXPECTED. Like others have said, kids can be smooth or they can totally capsize your boat. And you just don't know which way it is going to go, nor can you control it. Agreed with Jennie on the daddy role. My husband is amazing and there is absolutely no way I could be as aggressive on the career/school front as I am right now without him backing me every step of the way and picking up the slack with the kids. Women definitely need good partners or other support systems so they aren't left juggling all the balls alone.PT LawMomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15314090311423013154noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-60257190181672084842012-07-21T08:05:19.684-05:002012-07-21T08:05:19.684-05:00A great post, really!
I'd like to point out ...A great post, really!<br /><br /> I'd like to point out something though, which is the whole crux of this "debate", "mommy wars", call it what you will. It is that is *still* is all about the mommies. Misogyny is so deeply ingrained in our culture, that we have here a classic case of women firing on women. <br /><br />Where are the daddies? And they're just secondary, actually. What really is at the heart of this debate is - tadaa, the children! If we're really concerned about the well-being of the children, we will completely disregard who of the parents is working their ass off. In this case, should the focus not be - "ok, she's working, so the dad is staying home for the rest of the parental leave" - right? Let's stop talking in terms of maternity/paternity leave, and talk parental leave, and focus not on the working mother, but the child, and who will take care of it regardless.Jenniehttp://copenhagenfollies.blogspot.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-52424731025050180202012-07-20T21:35:57.612-05:002012-07-20T21:35:57.612-05:00This second point is what worries me the most. Co...This second point is what worries me the most. Companies already treat this really badly in the US. Not all of us can have night nurses - it will be easier for her to return than the average person given her resources. That shouldn't be the assumption for everyone. And sure I had time and energy to do things while I was on maternity leave and could have worked part time from home - but in the end there would have been no way, with the overall lack of sleep, that I would have been highly functioning at a full time or 20 hr a week job. Work just doesn't take 40 hours out of your week either, it's more like 55-60 when you count breaks/commutes. Add in sleeping for 1.5-2 hours at a pop 2 or 3 times in the night and I would have been a pretty useless employee falling asleep at my desk.<br /><br />I do think, like many others, though, that it is all about choice and being able to make our own choices. I think in the end being able to do that is key. Everyone's situation is different.MonkeyBusinesshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09547460016103234337noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-84585128336826516482012-07-20T18:28:42.347-05:002012-07-20T18:28:42.347-05:00Completely agree on the whole - no time to shower ...Completely agree on the whole - no time to shower bit. Glad to see so many other women irked by this ... I don't know what to call it, martyrdom?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-77413038729202857862012-07-20T16:16:05.554-05:002012-07-20T16:16:05.554-05:00Perfectly written post as always. Couldn't hav...Perfectly written post as always. Couldn't have said it better myself. Please continue to express your feelings on issues like these. I love reading them :-)Raquelhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03520147709209090993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-45783987452581405182012-07-20T16:02:43.119-05:002012-07-20T16:02:43.119-05:00Well said. I think a major part of the problem is ...Well said. I think a major part of the problem is that we women are so polite when we are the ones under attack. I wish I could go back in time to when I was pregnant and interviewers were giving me the "Oh, but once you hold that baby you won't want to come back!" crap. I would love to say "Who the F*&% do you think you are? You don't know me. You don't know anything about my family and our dynamic. Oh, and I don't want to work for a woman who is so sexist against women." We need to post things like this in order to stick it to those who would presume to speak for us, so way to go Liv!Shanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04341754795161792642noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-65729669170542169002012-07-20T15:48:58.883-05:002012-07-20T15:48:58.883-05:00Wonderful post LL. I have been following you for a...Wonderful post LL. I have been following you for a while, and at the risk of sounding over dramatic, I live for the posts where you give you're perspective on these issues. There is always a line or a thought that resonates with me, and I have several of your posts bookmarked to refer back to for when I am a working/studying/juggling mommy. <br /><br />I have girlfriends who had babies while in medical residencies who were also told how they wouldn't want to go back after, and of course a large part of them wanted to stay and play/cuddle with their babies, but they went back. These are some of the most driven women I know and I see them and they are still who they are before they had babies, just happier and cuddlier! Just because its hard to go back doesn't mean you throw away everything you worked so furiously towards. I get so tired of people telling me once I have this baby I won't want to go to law school. How do they know what I will want? Some days what I know I want is even in flux.<br /><br />Anyways, once again I really enjoyed this post! FYI I equally enjoy the Landon & Claire pictures posts too! Keep 'em coming.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-39848643579064451692012-07-20T15:23:01.857-05:002012-07-20T15:23:01.857-05:00I agree with everything you've written. I am ...I agree with everything you've written. I am a full-time working mom. I have my paying career that I spend the bulk of my time at. I also sit on the Planning/Zoning Commission in the town where I live, I am the Vice Co-Chair for the Board of Adjustment - again, in the same town, I keep the books for my husbands business and I also sit as the Vendor & Event Sponsorship Coordinator for a nationally recogized car show that works to benefit the Wounded Warrior Project. In addition to those things, I balance my marriage, my child, my household and my personal life. I would say I do I damned good job in all areas as well. <br />When my daughter was born, I took a 12 week maternity leave. I fretted about going back to work, and leaving her in a daycare facility, too. What would people think? What mom does that? While I enjoyed those precious moments I was able to share with my daughter, I learned about myself that I am not cut out to be a stay at home mom. I enjoy a great deal the satisfaction of having a job outside of the home. I need this for me. When I went on leave, I daydreamed about staying home and never going back to work, but I quickly found out that I'm not cut out for that, and with the exception of the relative few days she clung to my leg and cried that she didn't want me to leave, I've never looked back.<br /> Ms. Mayer is newly pregnant, and while she's committed to a 3-week working maternity leave, because she thinks that's what she wants right now, that might not be the case once that baby is born. On the other hand, perhaps she'll stick to her guns and do what she's set out to do. The bottom line is, however, that at the end of the day, it's her decision. It's her life, her career, her child, and NONE of our business. <br />More power to you Ms. Mayer, regardless of what you decide to do!Heather Heasleyhttp://sundaefunnies.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-50267341816267808372012-07-20T13:24:37.091-05:002012-07-20T13:24:37.091-05:00To all the commentators who said they went back to...To all the commentators who said they went back to school when the baby was a few weeks old: I did too. My daugher was two weeks. But that is not the same thing as having a two week maternity leave and going back to a FULL TIME job. And I agree that we shouldn't compare the CEO of a major company and a top official to an average working mom.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-3441908669931884712012-07-20T13:01:31.134-05:002012-07-20T13:01:31.134-05:00Ugh. I am WAHM/SAHM/WOHM/Whatever and I always ta...Ugh. I am WAHM/SAHM/WOHM/Whatever and I always take a shower, no matter which hat I am wearing. Hands down, that is the one statement I absolutely DETEST from the SAHM crowd. WTF? It takes all of 5 fucking minutes to take a shower. 5 Minutes! Sorry for the cursing, but I hate that statement from gals who act like they are oh so busy that they don't even have time for basic hygiene. /Rant :-)<br /><br />I think, overall, I resent the Having It All statement, because no matter which hat I wear, I find myself most certainly NOT Having It All. Earlier this year, I did work outside the home and I hated only seeing my kids for just a few hours in the evening. I hated us having to do all of our shopping/cleaning/housework on the weekends. I hated our daily struggle to get a healthy dinner on the table when we both had just gotten home at 6:30 and were starving. <br /><br />However, now that both of my kids are going to be in school in the fall, I am conflicted. My 5 year old will only be in morning Kindergarten. Not quite enough time for me to actively get a job, but also too much time for me to wander around the house without kids. So. I am looking for something part-time, from home.<br /><br />Regarding Marissa Mayer? I think her situation is interesting in particular because 1) She is pregnant 2) it is a CEO position and 3) Yahoo is often regarded as a sinking ship. Not only is she pregnant and all that THAT entails, but she has agree to hop on board an incredibly stressful situation. Furthermore, she is a CEO -- that is not a 9-5 job and carries a unique set of responsibilities. I have watched my husband assume that role 3 different times now and frankly, sometimes it sucks (I was relieved that with his new company, he "stepped down" into a CTO role instead.) Am I judging her because she took on the role? No. I really don't care. Sure, more power to her for wanting to do all that, but I would hesitate to hold her up as some sort of role model since she has access to the sort of support that most of us could only dream of.Cagey (Kelli Oliver George)https://www.blogger.com/profile/13691589813815058981noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-24829235647910008082012-07-20T12:14:16.126-05:002012-07-20T12:14:16.126-05:00Amen to that. I went back to law school as a 1L a...Amen to that. I went back to law school as a 1L after two weeks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-53640198061081021052012-07-20T11:05:05.399-05:002012-07-20T11:05:05.399-05:00My husband and I have also chosen not to have chil...My husband and I have also chosen not to have children. And nothing is more annoying than "oh you'll change your mind." Or, "wait until you hold a baby, you'll want one." And of course the obviously common "children will change your life, you don't want to miss that." First, do you seriously think I haven't held a baby before? I have, many times. And nope, still don't want one. And second, why does everyone care what I do? I'm pretty sure it's my decision. Anyway, long rant short, AMEN to your blog post, worry about yourselves people, I think the intelligent, successful CEO can take care of herself.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-10579493078519647082012-07-20T08:05:15.541-05:002012-07-20T08:05:15.541-05:00I have had two and am pregnant with a third. I jus...I have had two and am pregnant with a third. I just really didn't think the lowered sleep was that disruptive. I feel like your reply kind of illustrates my point. (of and I EBF'd both and did plenty of night wakings. Just fell asleep pretty easily after).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-68008153117786296892012-07-19T23:37:26.265-05:002012-07-19T23:37:26.265-05:00I have never been able to understand the grief and...I have never been able to understand the grief and judgement that people pour onto adults who know that they do not want to have children. I don't get it. I think, "Yay for you that you know that you don't want kids and so won't have them!". I've seen articles written that almost seem to condone stoning of people like you. I've heard it described as being "selfish".<br />What in the world is "selfish" about not wanting kids .... and knowing that about yourself?!! How wonderful that you know what you want, and don't want, and live accordingly. How many neglected and abused children would have been spared if their parents had known this about themselves?<br />Yes, children do change your life. Mostly for the better, but not always ... not for everyone. I have 6 children and I love and treasure each and every one of them. But that's me. <br />I know that you didn't really mention the judgement you get (and maybe you don't) .... but I just wanted to say I think you rock.<br />:)Janinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00949809367923657970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-64040372453644791492012-07-19T23:11:23.237-05:002012-07-19T23:11:23.237-05:00Wait, have you had a child? It's not about sle...Wait, have you had a child? It's not about sleeping 5 hours a night. 5 hours would be a dream come true for a new mom. It's more like, sleeping two hours at a pop, combined with the stress of having to get up and feed and care for another person while you are dizzy from exhaustion, all under the stress of not really knowing what the hell it is that you are doing. I don't mean to be rude or mean, but really, caring for a newborn is nothing like being in college or backpacking through Europe.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-91456755879855497552012-07-19T23:06:11.737-05:002012-07-19T23:06:11.737-05:00I don't disagree with your post, but I do want...I don't disagree with your post, but I do want to point out one thing that I think a lot of women (and perhaps, you) have misunderstood the "having it all" statement. "Having it all" is/was proxy for being able to have the same career opportunities alongside having a family as men have traditionally enjoyed. It wasn't specifically about women having the choice to work or not to work. It was about equality, period. Over the years, "feminism" has become more synonymous with choice, but to the older generation (including Ms. Slaughter), it isn't about having choice so much as it is pure equality. So, in some ways, she is actually speaking about something slightly different from what all of us are talking about. <br /><br />But honestly? I couldn't care less about Yahoo, or it's CEO (male or female). It's a dying company and if the BOD thinks she can save it, more power to her. And Good Luck.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-8434317470866250172012-07-19T19:59:52.177-05:002012-07-19T19:59:52.177-05:00I agree - irritated/don't care when it comes t...I agree - irritated/don't care when it comes to things like this. I have zero doubts about working. I was compelled to stay home for so long and was *so* miserable the entire time, it is obvious to me that work is best. And you know? It's best for *ME*. I get to be a priority when it comes to choosing what I'll do with my life. The colostrum nuts can suck it (ew.). My happiness and my needs do not drop off of the list because I had a family, any more than they do for A. <br /><br />No one has ever dared to tell me that I ought to put Baz before my career (possibly because it is clear that we cannot expect to survive on a PhD student's stipend for long, and also that I will boob-punch at the slightest provocation). The open-letter stupidity to a woman who is CEO of a huge corporation, telling her to basically cut out everything she is intellectually and professionally because she's gonna be a mama.. oh my god. The self-righteous idiocy. The sheer volume of assumptions there, right? Even assuming that there is one way to feel about new motherhood, one experience of infancy... boob-punch. Aside from being idiotic, it drives that profound alienation that bedevils all of us who do not get that storybook glow or that cozy sleepy infant. <br /><br />Bleh, I say, to the idiots.Dineihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10668860590678154991noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-59392237279948952832012-07-19T17:30:09.181-05:002012-07-19T17:30:09.181-05:00I know attorneys in Small Town that have taken thr...I know attorneys in Small Town that have taken three week long maternity leave, and worked through it. I don't know why people are freaking out so much. I think she's doing a fantastic job.<br /><br />Well said, LL.Brittanyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07515732200660298865noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-64378025780958942842012-07-19T17:29:08.249-05:002012-07-19T17:29:08.249-05:00@alice - i think your comment is along the lines o...@alice - i think your comment is along the lines of what Anne Marie Slouter says - that for the very most demanding jobs like M&A lawyer or policy advisor, or CEO, that level of stress and total encompassing of your life - it's not terribly compatible with motherhood as most women want it. I agree with you and with her on that point.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-1465579295188245302012-07-19T17:26:59.241-05:002012-07-19T17:26:59.241-05:00@CP - I love being with my babies, too, and I love...@CP - I love being with my babies, too, and I love maternity leave - I didn't think it was torture at all. What i meant by the "flummoxed" comment was more that it seems like people say having a newborn is SO HARD and SO BAD that you couldn't possibly have the energy to work, and in my experience, that just wasn't true. Like you, I did crafts, went on outings, and did all kinds of things that required lots of energy (but that were not work) during my maternity leaves. i could easily have been working (I just didn't happen to want to).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-40372349131964950322012-07-19T16:02:31.859-05:002012-07-19T16:02:31.859-05:00From a woman who had the choice to be a stay-at-ho...From a woman who had the choice to be a stay-at-home-mom for all 6 of our children .... I say, "Bravo!!!" You hit it exactly on the head ..... it's not about having it all, it's NEVER been about having it all because NO ONE can have it all! It's about have a CHOICE.<br />This was a really great post, LL.<br />:)Janinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00949809367923657970noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-86225324466040298862012-07-19T15:08:54.022-05:002012-07-19T15:08:54.022-05:00Many mommies here seem to agree that they don'...Many mommies here seem to agree that they don't need long maternity leaves or that maternity leave can be torture. That's fine for them but not all women feel that way. I love being with my babies. I go back to work in Aug and I dread leaving my 4 month old. That doesn't make me lazy or a drama queen or less intellectual. I just like being near my baby and I want to soak up all his babyhood. Good for ppl who are ready to go back after a week but those that aren't are not inferior.CPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09049860284871030328noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-43867829348827675682012-07-19T14:39:18.470-05:002012-07-19T14:39:18.470-05:00Yeah, different women have different baby experien...Yeah, different women have different baby experiences. Personally the time I spent with my baby on my 6 month maternity leave was akin to torture. He had colick and I was going out of my mind with boredom and loneliness. BUT, I'm grateful we had that time together to bond and shit. I think the older a kid gets, the more important bonding time is. I frankly didn't care if I saw his 'firsts'--the first time he sat up, the first time he rolled over, the first time he took a step, whatever. That stuff is really boring and not at all youtube video worthy. BUT, I do want to spend enough time with him that he knows who I am and feels secure in our relationship. And I want to be the one he calls 'mommy' and not some caretaker that I hired. I imagine most moms would want this too? All of this means I CAN work and have a nice career. But I can't disappear into an incredibly demanding job that allows me to see my toddler for only 30 min. a day, if that. Sleep, sanity, work, relationships--something's gotta give.Alice in Wonderlandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11566311260826920486noreply@blogger.com