tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post1201113268782966307..comments2024-03-27T12:22:20.528-05:00Comments on Lag Liv: On Marriage, Giraffes, and Proposition 8LLhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/04431706155081017734noreply@blogger.comBlogger40125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-83973741435900452482008-11-06T13:16:00.000-06:002008-11-06T13:16:00.000-06:00Melissa, absolutely fantastic comment, I couldn't ...Melissa, absolutely fantastic comment, I couldn't have said it better.LLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04431706155081017734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-33159635880117215952008-11-06T13:14:00.000-06:002008-11-06T13:14:00.000-06:00Okay, this is definitely a long comment, and LL, f...Okay, this is definitely a long comment, and LL, feel free to delete, but I had to get it out!<BR/><BR/>I am a conservative Christian Republican who believes in the right to marriage for all people, gay or straight.<BR/><BR/>I think that Matt has made a very good point. Just as no religious bigot is ever going to convince gay-rights activists that gay marriage is an abomination by self-righteously thumping a Bible; no homosexual person or gay-rights activist is ever going to convince an anti-gay conservative that marriage should be equal and available to all couples by shouting about bigotry and discrimination. It’s simply too disrespectful. If each side would consider the other’s views and approach the conversation with respect and an openness to new ideas we might be able to persuade one another. Interesting – wouldn’t that approach work with ALL disagreements? But, I digress.<BR/><BR/>Most of my friends and family are shocked that I support gay marriage. By approaching them with respect for their opinions, many of them have become open to gay marriage. The most common arguments I have heard that are easily countered with logic are:<BR/><BR/><B>The Bible says homosexuality is an abomination.</B><BR/>Yes, it does. The Bible specifically says that a man should not lie with another man as he would a woman and if he does, both should be put to death. In the OLD Testament. Specifically, Leviticus, Chapter 20, Verse 13. However, note that Leviticus, Chapter 20, Verse 10 states that if a man commits adultery with another man’s wife, then both the adulterer and the adulteress should be put to death. It is not for us to determine which parts of the Bible are to be followed and which are to be ignored. How can a Christian be so passionate about the conviction that homosexuality is an abomination and at the same time, ignore adultery - a sin punishable by death? I find that most Christians have a difficult time explaining why they think one verse must be followed to the letter while another can be ignored.<BR/><BR/><B>Christian marriage is between a man and a woman.</B><BR/>Yes, correct again. That’s what the Bible says. However, the government is not granting certificates of Christian marriage. If it were, then no Jewish, Hindu, Muslim, atheist, etc., (or divorced) person would be allowed to get married. The government provides certificates of marriage to couples who want to share their lives, retirement benefits, and tax returns - among other rights and privileges - with each other.<BR/><BR/><B>Permitting gay marriage will make a mockery of the institute of marriage.</B><BR/>I find this particular argument to be both hilarious and offensive. On the hilarity side – HA! Gay people are going to make a mockery of marriage? My next door neighbor is 31 and has been married 6 times. If that’s not mocking marriage, I don’t know what is. On the offensive side – NO! As a Christian, I am offended by the idea that a government approved marriage has ANYTHING to do with the vows taken before God. If it did, then I would not be able to tolerate the number of people who take vows and then discard them so easily. THAT is what destroys the sanctity of marriage. Heterosexual couples have treated marriage as right of passage or, worse, hobby for so long that the entity has lost its reverence.<BR/><BR/>Furthermore, the Bible never says that two men or two women cannot devote their lives to each other in deep and abiding friendship and love. Isn't that what all good marriages should be about? The only difference between a gay couple and a straight couple is the sex act. Let gay couples get married and the sex will be the same - Nonexistent!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-75406489007402870772008-11-06T10:22:00.000-06:002008-11-06T10:22:00.000-06:00To (in)sanity gal,I see your point in regards to (...To (in)sanity gal,<BR/>I see your point in regards to (not) choosing your lifestyle, and it makes since. <BR/>And honestly, I don't think there's anything wrong w/ some discrimination. For example, let's say your walking down a dark alley, you see someone walking towards you dressed and acting in a certain way that makes fearful. You don't know that person, but you've already formed a judgement on them.<BR/>Anyway...thanks for responding, because I do see the so called "choice" differently now.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-45261990760111971242008-11-05T21:00:00.000-06:002008-11-05T21:00:00.000-06:00"However, when a same-sex couple preaches about wa..."However, when a same-sex couple preaches about wanting to be married spiritually, there exists a problem because the very nature of their union is strictly prohibited." Anonymous, no matter what you may wish you could control,you cannot deny another person's spirituality or beliefs. You had the right to choose your religion. Why do you feel you can speak for all people? It is this attitude that made me and my family leave the Christian church.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-72961516307411996152008-11-05T20:40:00.000-06:002008-11-05T20:40:00.000-06:00And, as a fellow Christian who has also read the B...And, as a fellow Christian who has also read the Bible in entirety, there are a LOT of very clear Biblical rules we've all chosen to ignore because of "the times". Not mixing wool and linen, not working on the Sabbath, and not planting two different crops side by side are just a few examples. Obviously these are theological issues best debated with your pastor or priest, not something the government should be deciding. <BR/><BR/>And also, it's true that marriage is a covenant in the Bible and sacred as such, but the government provides for divorce, which according to the scripture should never be allowed. But it <I>must</I> be allowed because marriage under the government isn't a religious institution, people take additional steps and apply their outside belief systems to make it so. So just as your religion may not accept divorce, but the government does, your religion can refrain from accepting gay marriage, but the government must. The governmental designation of marriage should probably have a different name (like "civil union"), but it doesn't, it is called marriage and because separate is inherently unequal, everyone should have the same legal title.LLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04431706155081017734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-24488774565912318622008-11-05T20:20:00.000-06:002008-11-05T20:20:00.000-06:00[Sigh], to the last anonymous: the entire point of...[Sigh], to the last anonymous: the entire point of this post is that marriage IS regulated by the state and a whole list of rights and benefits attaches to that legal title for your union. I'm not requiring that anyone "be married by the people of God." And just because one guy told you something in high school does not make it true. Not to mention the fact that even if it was (and it's not) that has pretty much nothing to do with the legal status of their union. <BR/><BR/>Your argument is based entirely on religion and my whole point was that in this country with a Constitution mandating the separation of church and state, you have to give me more than that to justify denying fundamental rights to an entire class of people.LLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04431706155081017734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-89692759717024620032008-11-05T20:01:00.000-06:002008-11-05T20:01:00.000-06:00PS: I just wanted to add that in the Christian pro...PS: I just wanted to add that in the Christian pro-gay community there is a sense that those pieces of the Bible need to be thrown away to fit with the times. Well, there are restrictions on heterosexual couples that prohibit many things as well and no one bickers on their behalf.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-52332035922837529522008-11-05T19:57:00.000-06:002008-11-05T19:57:00.000-06:00I don't agree for various reasons. They may be int...I don't agree for various reasons. They may be intelligent or quite the opposite to you but they are my opinions. First of all I was raised in a world capital that is HIGHLY liberal. I grew up secular for a vast majority of my life and I didn't care what or with who people did things with. However, I am now a Christian and although I struggled for a few years with my faith and this issue (because I knew great men who were gay) I came to the understanding that marriage is a gift from God. I once met a gay man in high school who told me that ALL gay men cheat. There is no room, even though in this day and age we dispose of spouses like toilet paper, for that kind of behavior, and most importantly heart in such a sanctified union. There are only two covenants described in the ENTIRE Bible and Torah and that is the relationship between us and God and husband and wife. It is so incredibly upheld that it is used to symbolize our relationship with God. This is all to say that whether the government wants to allow civil unions between same-sex couples is none of my concern. However, when a same-sex couple preaches about wanting to be married spiritually, there exists a problem because the very nature of their union is strictly prohibited. <BR/><BR/>I'm not against gay people. But committing gay acts does not form a part of your identity much like being an alcoholic has nothing to do with who you truly are and believing that the two are intertwined is pretty sick.<BR/><BR/>That's my opinion as a spiritual woman. If they want to tax breaks and the legal rights, then by all means. But don't ask to be married by the people of God.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-72259888392330971932008-11-05T19:13:00.000-06:002008-11-05T19:13:00.000-06:00I have been reading your post for a year and I fee...I have been reading your post for a year and I feel I know you. Sorry if that's creepy. I was so happy to see this post. When our son came out to us when he was 12 (unintentionally), it started us down a road that has led to our activism to the point that my husband and I feel we are part of the gay community. This is a very personal issue to us. We worked to defeat Prop 2 in 2004 in Michigan and lost. Our son is 20 now and doing very well, but it took years of our support for him to beat depression and suicidal thoughts. We had to learn how to be totally supportive, and our family had to learn how to deal with society's rejection without getting so angry that it was unhealthy for us. I am very disappointed that Prop 8 didn't go down in a big way, (although it's still up in the air) but I'm trying to take the long view. If and when our son finds the love of his life, we will help them find legal avenues to protect their relationship if they cannot legally marry. But I am waiting for a favorable Supreme Court to rule that all of these discriminatory amendments are unconstitutional. Change is coming and younger people will accept these relationships as healthy and normal. Thank you for this great post!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-10343454415196601812008-11-05T12:59:00.000-06:002008-11-05T12:59:00.000-06:00Such a great post! My nephew is gay, and "came out...Such a great post! My nephew is gay, and "came out" to his family when a college roommate discovered what he had been browsing on the pc in their dorm room, and said he would "out" him in the smaller town that they both were from. But before he told his family, he very, VERY seriously considered suicide.<BR/><BR/>A stand-up comedian (gay) has some schtick where he talks about "choosing" to be gay. And then asks why you would choose a lifestyle where people automatically hate you and your life may even be in danger.<BR/><BR/>It is NOT a choice that someone can make - I firmly believe that. And denying their civil rights because they are gay, is just so, SO wrong.<BR/><BR/>Thank you so much for this post. I just discovered your blog and will put it in my "faves".jessicahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02598544917785126150noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-78793271419890952712008-11-05T11:46:00.000-06:002008-11-05T11:46:00.000-06:00To the most recent anonymous:I'm not sure of your ...To the most recent anonymous:<BR/><BR/>I'm not sure of your situation, so maybe you fit this - but I think you can only say that you "choose to be straight" if you have romantic/sexual feels towards people of the same sex and you choose not to act on them. In that sense, then maybe you are choosing to be straight. A person would only be choosing to be gay if they were actually attracted to people of the opposite sex but decided, for whatever reason, that they wanted to be with people of the same sex. For most us, that's just not the case. I don't choose to be attracted to people of the same sex. I just am. And if I denied that, then I would be CHOOSING to lead a straight lifestyle. <BR/><BR/>If you think that marriage is not special treatment, then that suggests that you would agree that gay people should be able to get married - i.e. not be treated in a manner different from straight people.<BR/><BR/>Finally, the gay community throws itself a parade. It's not like the state sponsors a parade. It's the gay community doing it for themselves. And the difference there is that you're not discriminated against because you're straight. You don't need any sort of morale-boosting to feel okay about who you are (at least in terms of your sexual orientation). The same is not true of the gay community. I remember once when I was a kid and mother's day was coming up. I asked my mom why we didn't have daughter's day. She said we didn't need one because every day was daughter's day. She was right. My needs were met all the time - the same is true for the straight community.(In)Sanity Galhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10101157897014200996noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-46488675914002377302008-11-05T11:05:00.000-06:002008-11-05T11:05:00.000-06:00I personally don't support this but doesn't mean I...I personally don't support this but doesn't mean I look down on or treat anyone badly who lives their life this way. I do believe this is a choice lifestyle just like I choose to be straight. I also don't expect special treatment because I'm straight (marriage should not be considered special treatment), nor should anyone who's gay expect special treatment from me. For example, my state holds a "Pridefest", which includes a parade, rally, music, food, etc...every year to honor the gay community; I'm not complaining there isn't a parade held to honor me for just being straight. It's only human to disagree, it's called having your own opinion and while I respect everyone's feeling on this subject, people should respect those who are opposed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-3164370800995094602008-11-04T18:54:00.000-06:002008-11-04T18:54:00.000-06:00i just voted No!i just voted No!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-3495251605588269422008-11-04T14:27:00.000-06:002008-11-04T14:27:00.000-06:00Prop. 8 is easily the most visible proposition on ...Prop. 8 is easily the most visible proposition on the ballot this election, and the ads have been running non-stop here in CA. The Yes-on-8 ads harp on how "marriage is required to be taught in schools" and seem to play on the fears of conservative parents who don't want their kids to "learn that a boy can marry a boy." The prop. 8 supporters also say that domestic partners are already afforded the same rights as married partners, so they frame the issue as "protecting traditional marriage" and not as dealing with civil rights at all. <BR/><BR/>I drove through mobs of No-on-prop. 8 supporters in Beverly Hills and West Hollywood yesterday and the excitement was so moving. It makes me sad to think that prop. 8 might actually pass, especially because there is SO MUCH misinformation out there... I've heard intelligent people get confused on what a yes or no on Prop. 8 even means... and that doesn't even touch on the fact that Prop. 8 supporters misrepresent the facts to play on voters' naivete, like bringing kids and schools into the debate. <BR/>I'm rambling and am probably not coherent, but I just wanted to say that I totally, completely agree with everything you said. Even though I didn't vote for a Presidential candidate this election, I waited in line for almost 2 hours this morning to vote against Prop. 8. I really hope that it ends up making a difference and that other states can follow CA's example! <BR/><BR/>Great post!LEOhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03081911312259246237noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-48084243984255648172008-11-04T12:58:00.000-06:002008-11-04T12:58:00.000-06:00Matt:I get your points and agree with most of them...Matt:<BR/><BR/>I get your points and agree with most of them. I think the Burkean argument is probably the most prevailing reason that people hesitate to make this change. What will happen? We don't know, and people fear the unknown. So, we just don't change anything. <BR/><BR/>I also get that you are in support of gay marriage and I wasn't trying to yell at you. <BR/><BR/>However, if you really want to get to the heart of the problem with the gay marriage movement, it's that there isn't truly a heart to the movement. Even strong supporters of the movement have vastly different reasons as to why they support it. And we have plenty of people within the gay community who do not support the movement and even shun the idea of trying to conform to the "societal norm" of getting married. Many people are also happy with civil unions while others find anything "less" than marriage to be a slap in the face. <BR/><BR/>Every person I know would respond differently to each of the arguments you raise. As a result, we do a very poor job of making our case. In fact, half of the time we're not even sure what case we're trying to make. We do not have a unified front and without one, change will be a slow and tedious process. Perhaps that is why it is easier to dismiss the other side than to engage them in intelligent discussion. Let's hope that Prop. 8 fails and provides a little motivation to keep up the fight.SAThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173095636054804648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-54342278597127462672008-11-04T12:11:00.000-06:002008-11-04T12:11:00.000-06:00To Matt: I think you have made several good points...To Matt: I think you have made several good points, and to those who are trying to yell at him, note that he's not saying he agrees with or advocates the points he's laid out. He's just doing exactly what I said I hadn't experienced: coherent, non-religious arguments against gay marriage. Now I disagree with those arguments, and I think he does too (with at least most of them), but it is important to hear the other side so that you can better support your own. <BR/><BR/>So thank you Matt, for contributing to what you knew was going to be a hostile environment, and thank you everyone else for continuing the discussion. As Matt noted, "If you would like to avoid this result [a gay marriage ban] in the future, it would benefit you to convince others who support gay marriage to change their tune." And you can't convince people if you don't first understand where their views are coming from; self-righteous indignation like my own won't get you very far with someone who disagrees with you.<BR/><BR/>And as a side note, I personally know and love Matt. I would also like to note that I beat him by one class rank in high school, something I will cling to forever because he absolutely kicked my ass in law school.LLhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04431706155081017734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-8818433938746020442008-11-04T11:52:00.000-06:002008-11-04T11:52:00.000-06:00pip,I am sure they did. My point is that telling ...pip,<BR/><BR/>I am sure they did. My point is that telling people <I>that</I> is much more likely to persuade people to support gay marriage than calling them prejudiced. It just requires people on the left to recognize that, for some people, equality is not a super-norm. Those people are not evil; they just think that other things matter besides equality. So make them see that gay parents are <I>good</I> parents--not just that it's "unfair" not to let them parent. That doesn't persuade anybody who isn't already converted.<BR/><BR/>I also get the impression that I have somehow been less than clear. I agree with those of you who support gay marriage. I think you are right. I do not care what percentage of the population is gay. I do not doubt that gay parents can be great parents. But voters in California may just vote down gay marriage today (and even if they don't, voters in plenty of other states already have). If you would like to avoid this result in the future, it would benefit you to convince others who support gay marriage to change their tune. If you'd rather just feel secure in the knowledge that anyone who doesn't share your equality-at-all-costs conception of morality is backwards--ironically, precisely the same trait often condemned in "religious bigots"--then just keep doing what you're doing. (That's a general remark directed at the left, not at any particular one of you.)<BR/><BR/>Incidentally, can you imagine if, rather than just describing the views of gay-rights opponents, I actually advocated them? Do you think the response I'd get would be civil? I have lots of conservative friends, and I assure you the answer is no.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08738962036938453095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-7940958360099916582008-11-04T11:19:00.000-06:002008-11-04T11:19:00.000-06:00Don't forget immigration rights too. My sister is ...Don't forget immigration rights too. My sister is a lesbian in a long time committed relationship with a Dutch woman. They have a son together. They recently moved to Holland because sister's partner can no longer stay here. Her student visa ran out. So sad that my sister cannot sponser her life partner for a green card because their family is not recognized by our country. <BR/><BR/>I agree with you 100% that I do not get the arguments. If churches don't like the unions, then don't perform the ceremonies. These relationships and couples will be out there whether they are recognized by the state or not. I just don't get why they can't have the rights. <BR/><BR/>I'm a Californian who proudly donated to the no on 8 campaign. I'm crossing my fingers for the results tonights.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your thoughtful and intelligent post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-14037990927603463852008-11-04T11:15:00.000-06:002008-11-04T11:15:00.000-06:00I couldn't possibly agree more, and said almost th...I couldn't possibly agree more, and said almost the exact same thing on my own blog yesterday (though yours was much better written). I am absolutely proud to vote No on Prop 8 today. I hope the rest of my state will join me.Denorahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00192830024562634469noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-75471707627900306272008-11-04T10:29:00.000-06:002008-11-04T10:29:00.000-06:00I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the post.I couldn't agree more. Thanks for the post.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-36340007948138173822008-11-04T10:15:00.000-06:002008-11-04T10:15:00.000-06:00Hey LL,Thanks for the post. It's great to have su...Hey LL,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the post. It's great to have such strong support from a happily married woman who does not feel threatened by my desire to also be a happily married woman someday. We could not make change without people like you, and I hope there are enough like you in California to defeat Prop. 8.<BR/><BR/>And Matt: The percentage of gay people is higher than 2-5% (generally discusssed as 10% as the absolute minimum). And, as a gay woman, I don't hold it against my parents that they are heterosexual and I think they did a fine job raising me despite that difference.SAThttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01173095636054804648noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-50331585123717422262008-11-04T09:29:00.000-06:002008-11-04T09:29:00.000-06:00I wholeheartedly agree! I recently received an em...I wholeheartedly agree! I recently received an email that puts it perfectly, I think - it reads:<BR/><BR/>"Whether you support or oppose the concept of gay marriage, Professor Raskin's response should be tattooed on all of our elected officials:<BR/><BR/><BR/>On Wednesday, March 1st, 2006, in Annapolis at a hearing on the proposed Constitutional Amendment to prohibit gay marriage, Jamie Raskin, professor of law at American University's Washington College of Law who lives in Montgomery County with his wife and three children, was requested to testify.<BR/><BR/>At the end of his testimony, Republican Senator Nancy Jacobs said: "Mr. Raskin, my Bible says marriage is only between a man and a woman. What do you have to say about that?"<BR/><BR/>Raskin replied: "Senator, when you took your oath of office, you placed your hand on the Bible and swore to uphold the Constitution. You did not place your hand on the Constitution and swear to uphold the Bible."<BR/>"Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-48583150347628291942008-11-04T09:21:00.000-06:002008-11-04T09:21:00.000-06:00grass:I get that you think the burden on persuasio...grass:<BR/><BR/>I get that you think the burden on persuasion is on the other side. Unsurprisingly, they think the burden of persuasion is on you. So long as both of you have that position, the result is that nobody thinks they should have to justify the rule they wish to impose on society as "law." But in a democratic society, it seems to me that nobody starts out with a presumption of being always right. You want your proposal to be the law? You should actively persuade your neighbors. Otherwise, you can't complain if they vote in a way you don't like. <BR/><BR/>Incidentally, in case I didn't make this sufficiently clear before, I am in in favor of gay marriage. I'm just not in favor of ridiculing people who disagree with me on this issue. LL started this post by pointing out that it's difficult to see what could possibly motivate the other side on this issue; I agree that opponents of gay marriage do a poor job of making their case, so I thought I'd take a stab at identifying what could be motivating them. I'm pleased to know from (in)santiy girl that there's data available on the child-rearing question, and I think making more public use of that data would be a more persuasive line of argument that what many supporters of gay marriage do, which is to call the other side names.<BR/><BR/>finally, tara: what gives me the idea that almost all children are heterosexual is that almost all people are heterosexual. The percentage of gay people seems to vary by sex, somewhere between 2-5%, something like that. I assure you it was not a dig; I was just speculating that when people think about gay adoptions, I think they assume we're talking about straight kids being raised by gay parents, and that maybe something about that is unsettling to them. If so, it's important to try to find out _what_ is unsettling, and address it.Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08738962036938453095noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-90229722068406637062008-11-04T09:06:00.000-06:002008-11-04T09:06:00.000-06:00Well said! I'm so nervous about this today! I kn...Well said! <BR/><BR/>I'm so nervous about this today! I know the polls have been good, but this means so much to so many people. <BR/><BR/>During the last election our state voted to add an amendment banning civil unions (our state had already banned gay marriage). Apparently, the conservatives felt we hadn't discriminated enough against gays, so we needed to work on that. It came on the heels of one of the major state universities approving partnership benefits for gay and straight domestic partners. Oooh, can't have people getting benefits.<BR/><BR/>It may be only one state, but for California to vote down discrimination today is incredibly important, an example for the entire nation. I hope Californians make the right decision. There is only one right decision here. The other is just discrimination wrapped in religion.Andreahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11173655298262399906noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-3552008288188142238.post-66959698876359103102008-11-04T08:41:00.000-06:002008-11-04T08:41:00.000-06:00Thank you for this! What a great post which really...Thank you for this! What a great post which really puts my throughs into print. I hope you don't mind if I link this in my blog.Meegshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09218498742250493159noreply@blogger.com